Discussion:
Who is using Object Pascal in production?
(too old to reply)
Marcos Douglas B. Santos via Lazarus
2017-10-27 12:26:02 UTC
Permalink
I would like to propose a discussion about "What is the relevance of
Object Pascal nowadays".
I don't want waste your time. I just want to know if we are growing
and being more relevant or not.

I use Object Pascal (mostly FPC, some old Delphi) in production to
make real applications. But we are seeing more and more "new
frameworks", "new technologies" and new languages that are become more
relevant.

What do you think?

Thanks.

Regards,
Marcos Douglas
--
Alexey via Lazarus
2017-10-27 12:53:41 UTC
Permalink
Post by Marcos Douglas B. Santos via Lazarus
What do you think?
I think, new langs are for other tasks. Go- for web servers; Rust- maybe
concurrent or not (used for browser). JS based langs- for web. Kotlin-
for Java. 90% of new langs - for other tasks.
--
Regards,
Alexey

--
Marcos Douglas B. Santos via Lazarus
2017-10-27 13:25:39 UTC
Permalink
On Fri, Oct 27, 2017 at 10:53 AM, Alexey via Lazarus
Post by Alexey via Lazarus
Post by Marcos Douglas B. Santos via Lazarus
What do you think?
I think, new langs are for other tasks. Go- for web servers; Rust- maybe
concurrent or not (used for browser). JS based langs- for web. Kotlin- for
Java. 90% of new langs - for other tasks.
And Object Pascal is for... desktop?

We can do almost everything with Pascal but people don't see in that way.

Regards,
Marcos Douglas
--
Michael Van Canneyt via Lazarus
2017-10-27 13:32:54 UTC
Permalink
Post by Marcos Douglas B. Santos via Lazarus
On Fri, Oct 27, 2017 at 10:53 AM, Alexey via Lazarus
Post by Alexey via Lazarus
Post by Marcos Douglas B. Santos via Lazarus
What do you think?
I think, new langs are for other tasks. Go- for web servers; Rust- maybe
concurrent or not (used for browser). JS based langs- for web. Kotlin- for
Java. 90% of new langs - for other tasks.
And Object Pascal is for... desktop?
We can do almost everything with Pascal but people don't see in that way.
I use it almost exclusively on the server. Webservice, REST related stuff.

But there are many domains where Object Pascal still works very well.

Michael.
--
Celâl Emre ÖZ via Lazarus
2017-10-27 13:39:32 UTC
Permalink
I use Lazarus for all my applications. Device monitoring software, our
account mang. and ERP applc.

2017-10-27 16:32 GMT+03:00 Michael Van Canneyt via Lazarus <
Post by Marcos Douglas B. Santos via Lazarus
On Fri, Oct 27, 2017 at 10:53 AM, Alexey via Lazarus
Post by Marcos Douglas B. Santos via Lazarus
Post by Marcos Douglas B. Santos via Lazarus
What do you think?
I think, new langs are for other tasks. Go- for web servers; Rust- maybe
concurrent or not (used for browser). JS based langs- for web. Kotlin- for
Java. 90% of new langs - for other tasks.
And Object Pascal is for... desktop?
We can do almost everything with Pascal but people don't see in that way.
I use it almost exclusively on the server. Webservice, REST related stuff.
But there are many domains where Object Pascal still works very well.
Michael.
--
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Lazarus mailing list
https://lists.lazarus-ide.org/listinfo/lazarus
Marcos Douglas B. Santos via Lazarus
2017-10-27 13:53:39 UTC
Permalink
On Fri, Oct 27, 2017 at 11:39 AM, Celâl Emre ÖZ via Lazarus
Post by Celâl Emre ÖZ via Lazarus
I use Lazarus for all my applications. Device monitoring software, our
account mang. and ERP applc.
Me too. The "problem" is find more people to work with Object Pascal.
Do you have this problem in your company?

Best regards,
Marcos Douglas
--
Aurimenes Apolonio via Lazarus
2017-10-27 13:56:47 UTC
Permalink
I'm starting my company based entirely in Lazarus. It's an ERP application,
with desktop and web modules.

I believe we can do (almost) everything with FPC/Lazarus.

*Aurimenes ApolÃŽnio Silva*
Desenvolvedor de Software
Fones: (81) 99935-9066 / 4101-5689

2017-10-27 10:39 GMT-03:00 Celâl Emre ÖZ via Lazarus <
Post by Celâl Emre ÖZ via Lazarus
I use Lazarus for all my applications. Device monitoring software, our
account mang. and ERP applc.
2017-10-27 16:32 GMT+03:00 Michael Van Canneyt via Lazarus <
Post by Marcos Douglas B. Santos via Lazarus
On Fri, Oct 27, 2017 at 10:53 AM, Alexey via Lazarus
Post by Marcos Douglas B. Santos via Lazarus
Post by Marcos Douglas B. Santos via Lazarus
What do you think?
I think, new langs are for other tasks. Go- for web servers; Rust- maybe
concurrent or not (used for browser). JS based langs- for web. Kotlin- for
Java. 90% of new langs - for other tasks.
And Object Pascal is for... desktop?
We can do almost everything with Pascal but people don't see in that way.
I use it almost exclusively on the server. Webservice, REST related stuff.
But there are many domains where Object Pascal still works very well.
Michael.
--
_______________________________________________
Lazarus mailing list
https://lists.lazarus-ide.org/listinfo/lazarus
--
_______________________________________________
Lazarus mailing list
https://lists.lazarus-ide.org/listinfo/lazarus
Marcos Douglas B. Santos via Lazarus
2017-10-27 16:02:18 UTC
Permalink
On Fri, Oct 27, 2017 at 11:56 AM, Aurimenes Apolonio via Lazarus
Post by Aurimenes Apolonio via Lazarus
I'm starting my company based entirely in Lazarus. It's an ERP application,
with desktop and web modules.
I believe we can do (almost) everything with FPC/Lazarus.
+1
I agree.

Best regards,
Marcos Douglas
--
Marcos Douglas B. Santos via Lazarus
2017-10-27 13:52:05 UTC
Permalink
On Fri, Oct 27, 2017 at 11:32 AM, Michael Van Canneyt via Lazarus
Post by Michael Van Canneyt via Lazarus
I use it almost exclusively on the server. Webservice, REST related stuff.
But there are many domains where Object Pascal still works very well.
You've been doing a great job on fcl-web (thanks).
I have REST services running on Windows IIS with FastCGI.

I would like to ask you: Why not use Node.js, Go, or even Java?
Is it just because you know more Pascal or, also, because you have
some advantages using it on the server?

Regards,
Marcos Douglas
--
Paul Michell via Lazarus
2017-10-27 14:03:28 UTC
Permalink
I have used Free Pascal and Lazarus for several production systems over
the last decade or so.  The most recent being for the UK Ordnance Survey:

https://www.ordnancesurvey.co.uk/business-and-government/help-and-support/navigation-technology/os-net/grid-inquest.html

The web interface also uses a DLL behind the scenes that is written in
Free Pascal too.  I personally prefer to use Object Pascal for any
project and only swap to some other language if I have to!

Kind regards,

Paul Michell
--
Marcos Douglas B. Santos via Lazarus
2017-10-27 15:36:18 UTC
Permalink
On Fri, Oct 27, 2017 at 12:03 PM, Paul Michell via Lazarus
I have used Free Pascal and Lazarus for several production systems over the
https://www.ordnancesurvey.co.uk/business-and-government/help-and-support/navigation-technology/os-net/grid-inquest.html
The web interface also uses a DLL behind the scenes that is written in Free
Pascal too. I personally prefer to use Object Pascal for any project and
only swap to some other language if I have to!
Thank you for shared this.
I didn't understand when you said "DLL behind the scenes" using web interface.
If you can explain, I would appreciate.

Best regards,
Marcos Douglas
--
Paul Michell via Lazarus
2017-10-28 18:28:14 UTC
Permalink
Post by Marcos Douglas B. Santos via Lazarus
On Fri, Oct 27, 2017 at 12:03 PM, Paul Michell via Lazarus
I have used Free Pascal and Lazarus for several production systems over the
https://www.ordnancesurvey.co.uk/business-and-government/help-and-support/navigation-technology/os-net/grid-inquest.html
The web interface also uses a DLL behind the scenes that is written in Free
Pascal too. I personally prefer to use Object Pascal for any project and
only swap to some other language if I have to!
Thank you for shared this.
I didn't understand when you said "DLL behind the scenes" using web interface.
If you can explain, I would appreciate.
The OS programmers are using a Windows server (I think with ASP or some
such MS technology).  From this they can call the Windows DLL version of
the transform, then pass the results back to the HTML output.  I was not
involved in that part of the project, but there is definitely some Free
Pascal generated code running on their server!
Post by Marcos Douglas B. Santos via Lazarus
Best regards,
Marcos Douglas
--
Marcos Douglas B. Santos via Lazarus
2017-10-28 20:20:36 UTC
Permalink
On Sat, Oct 28, 2017 at 4:28 PM, Paul Michell via Lazarus
Post by Marcos Douglas B. Santos via Lazarus
I didn't understand when you said "DLL behind the scenes" using web interface.
If you can explain, I would appreciate.
The OS programmers are using a Windows server (I think with ASP or some such
MS technology). From this they can call the Windows DLL version of the
transform, then pass the results back to the HTML output. I was not
involved in that part of the project, but there is definitely some Free
Pascal generated code running on their server!
Hmm, I believe you're talking about ActiveX. These ASP pages could
call this `components` directly.
Thanks for explain that.

Regards,
Marcos Douglas
--
Michael Van Canneyt via Lazarus
2017-10-27 14:13:36 UTC
Permalink
Post by Marcos Douglas B. Santos via Lazarus
On Fri, Oct 27, 2017 at 11:32 AM, Michael Van Canneyt via Lazarus
Post by Michael Van Canneyt via Lazarus
I use it almost exclusively on the server. Webservice, REST related stuff.
But there are many domains where Object Pascal still works very well.
You've been doing a great job on fcl-web (thanks).
I have REST services running on Windows IIS with FastCGI.
I would like to ask you: Why not use Node.js, Go, or even Java?
Is it just because you know more Pascal or, also, because you have
some advantages using it on the server?
Where to start ?

Go is a very nice language, but is very difficult to get to work with
external libraries. Writing imports can be next to impossible.
Our server needs to do LOTS of things that simply cannot be done in Go,
since Go doesn't have the necessary functionality (or libraries, or modules)
so we'd need to offload that to C libs, which kind of defeats the purpose.

Java would be a possibility, but

a) I don't know Java so well. Java is HUGE.

b) Then you need to deal with the Java VM and Tomcat and whatnot.
Not pleasant. Recently we had a java service completely unresponsive for
30 seconds, it was doing GC... Not acceptable at all.

Node.js is nice for some scripting, but IMO Javascript is not suitable for large
applications. Complete absence of type checking or any form of compilation
is a disaster for large projects.

Additionally, when using Node.js, you almost inevitably come into contact with npm.
We built some mobile apps using a web runtime, and typical usage for Node.js is
packaging of the app. This typically uses npm.

npm pulled in 1200+ npm packages (100+mb), to pack an application of 1200 lines
of javascript.
Not a joke. I actually checked. And to pack an application in essence means:
creating a zip. IMO the people using node.js and npm are deluded, to allow
such a mess.

Suffices that 1 of the 1200 packages for what reason whatsoever is broken,
retracted or whatnot: the whole system comes crashing down...

(The upcoming pas2js can target node.js, and I am confident you will not need npm.)

To make matters worse, javascript developers have no sense of time.
They actually think that completely breaking backwards compatibility after 2 years is OK.
For example, the change of Angular to Angular 2 (and subsequent changes) made me decide
that Angular is unsuitable for development - despite all the nifty features.

The average lifetime of applications I make is many many years.
So, backwards compatibility is VERY important.

So.
For all these reasons, I use Object Pascal. I can take my 10 year old
application, recompile, and be reasonably sure it will still work.

Michael.
--
Marcos Douglas B. Santos via Lazarus
2017-10-27 16:12:04 UTC
Permalink
On Fri, Oct 27, 2017 at 12:13 PM, Michael Van Canneyt
Post by Michael Van Canneyt via Lazarus
Where to start ?
Go is a very nice language, but is very difficult to get to work with
external libraries. Writing imports can be next to impossible.
Our server needs to do LOTS of things that simply cannot be done in Go,
since Go doesn't have the necessary functionality (or libraries, or modules)
so we'd need to offload that to C libs, which kind of defeats the purpose.
Java would be a possibility, but
a) I don't know Java so well. Java is HUGE.
b) Then you need to deal with the Java VM and Tomcat and whatnot.
Not pleasant. Recently we had a java service completely unresponsive for
30 seconds, it was doing GC... Not acceptable at all.
Node.js is nice for some scripting, but IMO Javascript is not suitable for large
applications. Complete absence of type checking or any form of compilation
is a disaster for large projects.
Additionally, when using Node.js, you almost inevitably come into contact with npm.
We built some mobile apps using a web runtime, and typical usage for Node.js
is packaging of the app. This typically uses npm.
npm pulled in 1200+ npm packages (100+mb), to pack an application of 1200 lines
of javascript. Not a joke. I actually checked. And to pack an application in
creating a zip. IMO the people using node.js and npm are deluded, to allow
such a mess.
Suffices that 1 of the 1200 packages for what reason whatsoever is broken,
retracted or whatnot: the whole system comes crashing down...
(The upcoming pas2js can target node.js, and I am confident you will not need npm.)
To make matters worse, javascript developers have no sense of time.
They actually think that completely breaking backwards compatibility after 2 years is OK.
For example, the change of Angular to Angular 2 (and subsequent changes)
made me decide that Angular is unsuitable for development - despite all the
nifty features.
The average lifetime of applications I make is many many years.
So, backwards compatibility is VERY important.
So. For all these reasons, I use Object Pascal. I can take my 10 year old
application, recompile, and be reasonably sure it will still work.
WOW... Actually, you have good reasons. I liked.

I am asking this because sometimes I cannot make a project if I say
that will be coded in Object Pascal.
I have heard a client saying: We use C# or <choose one>. We don't have
more Pascal programmers to maintain this.

To develop desktop apps, it's not a problem. But if it will be a web
app, could be.
I will use your text, next time. :)

About performance, do you believe that FastCGI is good or even better
than these other technologies?

Best regards,
Marcos Douglas
--
Fabio Luis Girardi via Lazarus
2017-10-27 16:17:03 UTC
Permalink
I'm using Object Pascal to develop a lot of real SCADA applications. You
can see some of then in:

http://www.pascalscada.com/pb/screenshots/

Some applications are made by me or my company (Eletromep), others by
friends or people that have contributed with PascalSCADA project.

2017-10-27 14:12 GMT-02:00 Marcos Douglas B. Santos via Lazarus <
Post by Marcos Douglas B. Santos via Lazarus
On Fri, Oct 27, 2017 at 12:13 PM, Michael Van Canneyt
Post by Michael Van Canneyt via Lazarus
Where to start ?
Go is a very nice language, but is very difficult to get to work with
external libraries. Writing imports can be next to impossible.
Our server needs to do LOTS of things that simply cannot be done in Go,
since Go doesn't have the necessary functionality (or libraries, or
modules)
Post by Michael Van Canneyt via Lazarus
so we'd need to offload that to C libs, which kind of defeats the
purpose.
Post by Michael Van Canneyt via Lazarus
Java would be a possibility, but
a) I don't know Java so well. Java is HUGE.
b) Then you need to deal with the Java VM and Tomcat and whatnot.
Not pleasant. Recently we had a java service completely unresponsive
for
Post by Michael Van Canneyt via Lazarus
30 seconds, it was doing GC... Not acceptable at all.
Node.js is nice for some scripting, but IMO Javascript is not suitable
for
Post by Michael Van Canneyt via Lazarus
large
applications. Complete absence of type checking or any form of
compilation
Post by Michael Van Canneyt via Lazarus
is a disaster for large projects.
Additionally, when using Node.js, you almost inevitably come into contact with npm.
We built some mobile apps using a web runtime, and typical usage for
Node.js
Post by Michael Van Canneyt via Lazarus
is packaging of the app. This typically uses npm.
npm pulled in 1200+ npm packages (100+mb), to pack an application of 1200 lines
of javascript. Not a joke. I actually checked. And to pack an
application in
Post by Michael Van Canneyt via Lazarus
creating a zip. IMO the people using node.js and npm are deluded, to
allow
Post by Michael Van Canneyt via Lazarus
such a mess.
Suffices that 1 of the 1200 packages for what reason whatsoever is
broken,
Post by Michael Van Canneyt via Lazarus
retracted or whatnot: the whole system comes crashing down...
(The upcoming pas2js can target node.js, and I am confident you will not need npm.)
To make matters worse, javascript developers have no sense of time.
They actually think that completely breaking backwards compatibility
after 2
Post by Michael Van Canneyt via Lazarus
years is OK.
For example, the change of Angular to Angular 2 (and subsequent changes)
made me decide that Angular is unsuitable for development - despite all
the
Post by Michael Van Canneyt via Lazarus
nifty features.
The average lifetime of applications I make is many many years.
So, backwards compatibility is VERY important.
So. For all these reasons, I use Object Pascal. I can take my 10 year old
application, recompile, and be reasonably sure it will still work.
WOW... Actually, you have good reasons. I liked.
I am asking this because sometimes I cannot make a project if I say
that will be coded in Object Pascal.
I have heard a client saying: We use C# or <choose one>. We don't have
more Pascal programmers to maintain this.
To develop desktop apps, it's not a problem. But if it will be a web
app, could be.
I will use your text, next time. :)
About performance, do you believe that FastCGI is good or even better
than these other technologies?
Best regards,
Marcos Douglas
--
_______________________________________________
Lazarus mailing list
https://lists.lazarus-ide.org/listinfo/lazarus
--
The best regards,

Fabio Luis Girardi
PascalSCADA Project
http://sourceforge.net/projects/pascalscada
http://www.pascalscada.com
Luiz Americo Pereira Camara via Lazarus
2017-10-28 00:42:38 UTC
Permalink
2017-10-27 13:12 GMT-03:00 Marcos Douglas B. Santos via Lazarus <
Post by Marcos Douglas B. Santos via Lazarus
I am asking this because sometimes I cannot make a project if I say
that will be coded in Object Pascal.
I have heard a client saying: We use C# or <choose one>. We don't have
more Pascal programmers to maintain this.
I have similar issue. I'm looking for third party companies to accelerate
development of my current app (used in production by around 200 people a
day) and they all say that is obsolete technology and will not find
programmers to maintain

The current Delphi (sad) state is not helping...

Luiz
Giuliano Colla via Lazarus
2017-10-28 11:42:18 UTC
Permalink
Post by Luiz Americo Pereira Camara via Lazarus
I have similar issue. I'm looking for third party companies to
accelerate development of my current app (used in production by around
200 people a day) and they all say that is obsolete technology and
will not find programmers to maintain
You might tell them that tombstones are obsolete technology (stone age),
but nobody has managed to find a more appropriate one for that purpose.
The attempts to replace them with an iPhone app appear to have failed up
to now!
The issue is never to use the most modern technology, but the most
appropriate one.
If their programmers are unable to cope with an appropriate technology,
but only with the latest one, they'll become useless, as soon as the
latest technology is replaced by the next whatever.

However keep in mind that using an appropriate technology not widely
used, has its advantages: you beat the competition of all those who are
using the latest and inappropriate, because you'll provide a better
result at a lower cost.

Giuliano

--
Marcos Douglas B. Santos via Lazarus
2017-10-28 15:11:22 UTC
Permalink
On Fri, Oct 27, 2017 at 10:42 PM, Luiz Americo Pereira Camara via
Post by Luiz Americo Pereira Camara via Lazarus
2017-10-27 13:12 GMT-03:00 Marcos Douglas B. Santos via Lazarus
Post by Marcos Douglas B. Santos via Lazarus
I am asking this because sometimes I cannot make a project if I say
that will be coded in Object Pascal.
I have heard a client saying: We use C# or <choose one>. We don't have
more Pascal programmers to maintain this.
I have similar issue. I'm looking for third party companies to accelerate
development of my current app (used in production by around 200 people a
day) and they all say that is obsolete technology and will not find
programmers to maintain
That is my main issue and I don't know how to solve this using Object Pascal.
Post by Luiz Americo Pereira Camara via Lazarus
The current Delphi (sad) state is not helping...
I agree. It's not stable and the price...

Best regards,
Marcos Douglas
--
Graeme Geldenhuys via Lazarus
2017-10-28 21:42:24 UTC
Permalink
... Recently we had a java service completely unresponsive for
30 seconds, it was doing GC... Not acceptable at all.
[on a side note - no need for a response]

I believe that could be down to a configuration issue or something else
- not necessarily the Java language or VM or GC to be blamed for that. I
say that because otherwise Stock Exchanges (they love Java), real-time
robotics, banking (they really really love Java) etc would not be using
Java... And here in the UK 8 out of every 10 Java jobs was one of these
business sectors. At least that was my personal experience. Those
business sectors would definitely not put up with 30 seconds of
unresponsive services. Imagine the London Stock Exchange has a 30 second
outage - that will be like a lifetime to them!

Interestingly you mentioned Tomcat. My new employer has plenty of issues
with Embarcadero's License Server software - Java based and runs under
Tomcat. Sometimes the license server process hangs - which invalidates
all Delphi instances in the company (that's an issue for another time).
The License Server in our company runs on a Windows machine and that
process hangs so badly that Windows Server itself can't kill it. The
Windows server needs to be rebooted to resolve the issue! So is that
down to bad programming (possible), a bug in Tomcat (possible, but
unlikely considering how popular it is and used - the issue would have
been well known if it existed), a bug in Windows or something else. Who
knows.

Regards,
Graeme
--
fpGUI Toolkit - a cross-platform GUI toolkit using Free Pascal
http://fpgui.sourceforge.net/

My public PGP key: http://tinyurl.com/graeme-pgp
--
Mark Morgan Lloyd via Lazarus
2017-10-27 13:20:59 UTC
Permalink
I would like to propose a discussion about "What is the relevance ofObject Pascal nowadays".I don't want waste your time. I just want to know if we are growingand being more relevant or not.
I use Object Pascal (mostly FPC, some old Delphi) in production tomake real applications. But we are seeing more and more "newframeworks", "new technologies" and new languages that are become morerelevant.
What do you think?
We are, but for in-house services rather than selling stuff for outside use.

If challenged I call it a 4GL, in the vein of the 4GLs that were popular
in the late 80s and early 90s. It's an exceptionally good tool for
certain types of job, and the fact that it is descended from Pascal is
irrelevant.
--
Mark Morgan Lloyd
markMLl .AT. telemetry.co .DOT. uk

[Opinions above are the author's, not those of his employers or colleagues]
--
Michalis Kamburelis via Lazarus
2017-10-27 13:54:16 UTC
Permalink
2017-10-27 14:26 GMT+02:00 Marcos Douglas B. Santos via Lazarus
Post by Marcos Douglas B. Santos via Lazarus
I would like to propose a discussion about "What is the relevance of
Object Pascal nowadays".
I don't want waste your time. I just want to know if we are growing
and being more relevant or not.
I use Object Pascal (mostly FPC, some old Delphi) in production to
make real applications. But we are seeing more and more "new
frameworks", "new technologies" and new languages that are become more
relevant.
We use Object Pascal (FPC) to develop games, with my "Castle Game
Engine", as part of the "Cat-astrophe Games" studio. We make Android
and iOS games ("Escape from the Universe" is our main title now, with
iOS release hopefully in ~2 weeks), and we plan to release a Steam
game next year. So, both mobile and desktop.

Regards,
Michalis
--
Marcos Douglas B. Santos via Lazarus
2017-10-27 15:31:59 UTC
Permalink
On Fri, Oct 27, 2017 at 11:54 AM, Michalis Kamburelis via Lazarus
Post by Michalis Kamburelis via Lazarus
We use Object Pascal (FPC) to develop games, with my "Castle Game
Engine", as part of the "Cat-astrophe Games" studio. We make Android
and iOS games ("Escape from the Universe" is our main title now, with
iOS release hopefully in ~2 weeks), and we plan to release a Steam
game next year. So, both mobile and desktop.
Yeah, that is a excellent case study.
I believe most game programmers are using C/C++ and Lua.
Is it difficult to you find Pascal programmers?

Regards,
Marcos Douglas
--
Michalis Kamburelis via Lazarus
2017-10-27 16:16:12 UTC
Permalink
27.10.2017 5:32 PM "Marcos Douglas B. Santos via Lazarus" <
***@lists.lazarus-ide.org> napisał(a):

On Fri, Oct 27, 2017 at 11:54 AM, Michalis Kamburelis via Lazarus
Post by Michalis Kamburelis via Lazarus
We use Object Pascal (FPC) to develop games, with my "Castle Game
Engine", as part of the "Cat-astrophe Games" studio. We make Android
and iOS games ("Escape from the Universe" is our main title now, with
iOS release hopefully in ~2 weeks), and we plan to release a Steam
game next year. So, both mobile and desktop.
Yeah, that is a excellent case study.
I believe most game programmers are using C/C++ and Lua.
Is it difficult to you find Pascal programmers?


We're an indie game studio, which practically just means that we're small.
So we did not yet need to hire additional programmers. A few persons work
on a project -- one full-time dev (me), one full-time graphic artist (for
2d and 3d..) and as we go along we often hire additional people for art and
sound.

From the game communities and conferences, I see that most game programmers
right now use Unity 3d and C#.

From talking with other programmers, I see that almost everyone has a basic
knowledge of Pascal, so that was very good. But many people don't know
things beyond Turbo Pascal features, and they only heard about Delphi but
don't know if it even still exists. So you need to explain to them how
stuff like classes looks like in Object Pascal -- which is easy, since they
know these concepts from other languages, you only need to show them the
syntax in Pascal (this is how I started to write my "Modern Pascal
Introduction for Programmers").

Also, in this field, people care a lot about the game engine features, and
the programming language is only one factor in this -- so even those that
were doubtful about the usage of Pascal, were still interested in Castle
Game Engine features.

Bottom line: when we'll be hiring, I'll definitely not limit the search to
Pascal programmers. It seems you can take a good programmer from any OOP
language, and if (s)he's really good, (s)he will pick up Pascal along the
way of learning the game engine. I know that many Unity3d programmers
learned C# along the way of learning Unity3d (come to think of it, so did I
:) ).

Regards,
Michalis
Florian Klämpfl via Lazarus
2017-10-27 19:28:56 UTC
Permalink
Post by Michalis Kamburelis via Lazarus
and we plan to release a Steam
game next year.
Hope you tell us when it is available :)
--
Leonardo M. Ramé via Lazarus
2017-10-27 13:59:08 UTC
Permalink
Post by Marcos Douglas B. Santos via Lazarus
I would like to propose a discussion about "What is the relevance of
Object Pascal nowadays".
I don't want waste your time. I just want to know if we are growing
and being more relevant or not.
I use Object Pascal (mostly FPC, some old Delphi) in production to
make real applications. But we are seeing more and more "new
frameworks", "new technologies" and new languages that are become more
relevant.
What do you think?
Thanks.
Regards,
Marcos Douglas
I use exclusively for "real" applications, on every kind of projects,
desktop, command line tools, CGIs...

Some times I'm forced to use C/C++ toolkits (because there's no
alternative), some times Python (for interfacing Libreoffice UNO) or
HTML/CSS/JS for client side web, but apart from that, I always use
FPC/Lazarus for *real* apps.

Regards,
--
Leonardo M. Ramé
Medical IT - Griensu S.A.
Av. Colón 636 - Piso 8 Of. A
X5000EPT -- Córdoba
Tel.: +54(351)4246924 +54(351)4247788 +54(351)4247979 int. 19
Cel.: +54 9 (011) 40871877
--
David Taylor via Lazarus
2017-10-27 14:23:50 UTC
Permalink
Post by Marcos Douglas B. Santos via Lazarus
I would like to propose a discussion about "What is the relevance of
Object Pascal nowadays".
I don't want waste your time. I just want to know if we are growing
and being more relevant or not.
I use Object Pascal (mostly FPC, some old Delphi) in production to
make real applications. But we are seeing more and more "new
frameworks", "new technologies" and new languages that are become more
relevant.
What do you think?
Thanks.
Regards,
Marcos Douglas
I use Delphi almost exclusively, and I write desktop programs (some
command-line stuff too). The only exception is a small amount of Perl
where someone had already written some code, but even that is moving to
using FreeImage and NetCDF libraries with Delphi 2009 and a very little
Delphi 10.1 for 64-bit benefits. My only Lazarus program has been a
digital clock for the Raspberry Pi.

Many of my users are still on VB6!
--
David
Web: http://www.satsignal.eu

--
Giuliano Colla via Lazarus
2017-10-27 16:18:10 UTC
Permalink
Post by Marcos Douglas B. Santos via Lazarus
I would like to propose a discussion about "What is the relevance of
Object Pascal nowadays".
I don't want waste your time. I just want to know if we are growing
and being more relevant or not.
I use Object Pascal (mostly FPC, some old Delphi) in production to
make real applications. But we are seeing more and more "new
frameworks", "new technologies" and new languages that are become more
relevant.
What do you think?
Thanks.
Regards,
Marcos Douglas
We're working in the field of automatic machines. From textile machines
to printer post-processing equipments (mainly in the security printers
field), from coffee roasting machines to chain wear monitoring
equipment. We do not usually deploy software, but rather we sell control
equipments which are then integrated by the final manufacturer in the
machine.

Our equipments usually include custom embedded controllers and a
supervisor which may range from an industrial grade PC to a Raspberry
PI. It provides both the human interface and the real-time high-level
process control.

We're also frequently asked to integrate our supervisor into the factory
data network both to provide production data (for statistical purposes,
quality assurance, and security) and to fetch process information when
appropriate. This leads to supplying also small servers which do handle
network protocols, Data Base handling, creating Reports etc.

We found today's Object Pascal and Lazarus to be the most cost effective
solution, for a number of reasons. Mainly:

* Object pascal syntax makes it easier to detect programmer errors at
compile time, thus strongly reducing the debug time.
* Being most projects quite similar and with very short development
time allowed, we need readable and self documenting sources, making
it easy for anyone to modify project A into project B.
* For the same reason, re-usability of code for us is a must. Again
Object Pascal is a winner by this POV.
* Always for the same reason we need a RAD tool, and Lazarus IDE is
again a winner.
* We need to interface with our real-time framework with predictable
timing, and this rules out most of the "modern" languages.
* Given the relative stability of the Object Pascal language, we may
take advantage of a huge amount of code we have developed in the
past. I've just ported to Lazarus a program which was originally
developed in the 90's with Delphi 3!

Many of those reasons apply also to Delphi, but we dropped Delphi long
ago because:

1. Primarily, we need Linux support, because of the real-time
requirements, which aren't achievable in Windows environment. OS-X
isn't an option because we need industrial grade PC's.
2. Secondarily, Lazarus IDE is light years better than Delphi IDE.

For sake of completeness, I must add that our real-time framework and
the real-time tasks are written in C. This was a must when it had to be
part of a patched Linux kernel, running in kernel space. Now that
RT_PREEMP has reached maturity and has made its way into the mainline
kernel we've been able to move the stuff to user space. Therefore we're
rewriting most of it in Object Pascal, to take advantage of a much lower
development and maintenance cost.

Giuliano
Fabio Luis Girardi via Lazarus
2017-10-27 16:31:08 UTC
Permalink
2017-10-27 14:18 GMT-02:00 Giuliano Colla via Lazarus <
We're working in the field of automatic machines. From textile machines to
printer post-processing equipments (mainly in the security printers field),
from coffee roasting machines to chain wear monitoring equipment. We do not
usually deploy software, but rather we sell control equipments which are
then integrated by the final manufacturer in the machine.
Our equipments usually include custom embedded controllers and a
supervisor which may range from an industrial grade PC to a Raspberry PI.
It provides both the human interface and the real-time high-level process
control.
We're also frequently asked to integrate our supervisor into the factory
data network both to provide production data (for statistical purposes,
quality assurance, and security) and to fetch process information when
appropriate. This leads to supplying also small servers which do handle
network protocols, Data Base handling, creating Reports etc.
We found today's Object Pascal and Lazarus to be the most cost effective
- Object pascal syntax makes it easier to detect programmer errors at
compile time, thus strongly reducing the debug time.
- Being most projects quite similar and with very short development
time allowed, we need readable and self documenting sources, making it easy
for anyone to modify project A into project B.
- For the same reason, re-usability of code for us is a must. Again
Object Pascal is a winner by this POV.
- Always for the same reason we need a RAD tool, and Lazarus IDE is
again a winner.
- We need to interface with our real-time framework with predictable
timing, and this rules out most of the "modern" languages.
- Given the relative stability of the Object Pascal language, we may
take advantage of a huge amount of code we have developed in the past. I've
just ported to Lazarus a program which was originally developed in the 90's
with Delphi 3!
Many of those reasons apply also to Delphi, but we dropped Delphi long ago
1. Primarily, we need Linux support, because of the real-time
requirements, which aren't achievable in Windows environment. OS-X isn't an
option because we need industrial grade PC's.
2. Secondarily, Lazarus IDE is light years better than Delphi IDE.
When I started the PascalSCADA project, these are the reasons why I choose
Lazarus/FPC. Now, some years ago, I'm happy with my choice, and it's the
main tool number here in my company.


The best regards,

Fabio Luis Girardi
Marcos Douglas B. Santos via Lazarus
2017-10-28 14:45:44 UTC
Permalink
On Fri, Oct 27, 2017 at 2:18 PM, Giuliano Colla via Lazarus
We're working in the field of automatic machines. From textile machines to
printer post-processing equipments (mainly in the security printers field),
from coffee roasting machines to chain wear monitoring equipment. We do not
usually deploy software, but rather we sell control equipments which are
then integrated by the final manufacturer in the machine.
Our equipments usually include custom embedded controllers and a supervisor
which may range from an industrial grade PC to a Raspberry PI. It provides
both the human interface and the real-time high-level process control.
We're also frequently asked to integrate our supervisor into the factory
data network both to provide production data (for statistical purposes,
quality assurance, and security) and to fetch process information when
appropriate. This leads to supplying also small servers which do handle
network protocols, Data Base handling, creating Reports etc.
We found today's Object Pascal and Lazarus to be the most cost effective
- Object pascal syntax makes it easier to detect programmer errors at compile
time, thus strongly reducing the debug time.
- Being most projects quite similar and with very short development time
allowed, we need readable and self documenting sources, making it easy for
anyone to modify project A into project B.
- For the same reason, re-usability of code for us is a must. Again Object
Pascal is a winner by this POV.
- Always for the same reason we need a RAD tool, and Lazarus IDE is again a
winner.
- We need to interface with our real-time framework with predictable timing,
and this rules out most of the "modern" languages.
- Given the relative stability of the Object Pascal language, we may take
advantage of a huge amount of code we have developed in the past. I've just
ported to Lazarus a program which was originally developed in the 90's with
Delphi 3!
As we can see, we can do everything with Object Pascal.
Unfortunately, the market don't have the same vision.
Many of those reasons apply also to Delphi, but we dropped Delphi long ago
1. Primarily, we need Linux support, because of the real-time requirements,
which aren't achievable in Windows environment. OS-X isn't an option because
we need industrial grade PC's.
2. Secondarily, Lazarus IDE is light years better than Delphi IDE.
I totally agree with you about the second item.
For sake of completeness, I must add that our real-time framework and the
real-time tasks are written in C. This was a must when it had to be part of
a patched Linux kernel, running in kernel space. Now that RT_PREEMP has
reached maturity and has made its way into the mainline kernel we've been
able to move the stuff to user space. Therefore we're rewriting most of it
in Object Pascal, to take advantage of a much lower development and
maintenance cost.
That is other excellent case study...
Maybe we all could build a website to write those cases and provide
more information about Object Pascal nowadays.

Do you have problems to find new Pascal programmers?

Regards,
Marcos Douglas
--
Graeme Geldenhuys via Lazarus
2017-10-28 19:23:55 UTC
Permalink
Post by Marcos Douglas B. Santos via Lazarus
As we can see, we can do everything with Object Pascal.
Unfortunately, the market don't have the same vision.
To be honest, sometimes it is not enough just to be able to do
everything other languages do.

For example: With Java and Spring Boot I can implement a Enterprise
grade web application (that can scale over multiple servers etc) with
embedded web server, object persistence, high grade web security, MVC
based web UI all in about 5 minutes. Yes, it will be a simple Address
Book style application, but considering all the features that
application has - it's good damn impressive for 5 minutes of effort.

I can't see the above being possible with today's FPC and Lazarus.

My point is, it is often the speed at which you can develop projects
that makes a big difference - not just the ability of the language or IDE.

Regards,
Graeme
--
fpGUI Toolkit - a cross-platform GUI toolkit using Free Pascal
http://fpgui.sourceforge.net/

My public PGP key: http://tinyurl.com/graeme-pgp
--
Marcos Douglas B. Santos via Lazarus
2017-10-28 20:37:08 UTC
Permalink
On Sat, Oct 28, 2017 at 5:23 PM, Graeme Geldenhuys via Lazarus
Post by Marcos Douglas B. Santos via Lazarus
As we can see, we can do everything with Object Pascal.
Unfortunately, the market don't have the same vision.
To be honest, sometimes it is not enough just to be able to do everything
other languages do.
For example: With Java and Spring Boot I can implement a Enterprise grade
web application (that can scale over multiple servers etc) with embedded web
server, object persistence, high grade web security, MVC based web UI all in
about 5 minutes. Yes, it will be a simple Address Book style application,
but considering all the features that application has - it's good damn
impressive for 5 minutes of effort.
I can't see the above being possible with today's FPC and Lazarus.
Maybe using the next version of fcl-web... but I don't know.
But even if FPC could do the same in 1 minute, do you think Java
developers may see Object Pascal with a different thinking? I don't
think so.
My point is, it is often the speed at which you can develop projects that
makes a big difference - not just the ability of the language or IDE.
In the other hand, we can to other things faster and better using
Object Pascal than other languages.
But, for me, market doesn't see in that way. They don't (much) care if
you are using the *right* tool for a job. They — most — want to know
if this job could be make by anyone else, not only *specialists*, even
if the project has quality and was delivered faster.

This is a wrong thinking, but it's true and many companies.

Best regards,
Marcos Douglas
--
Graeme Geldenhuys via Lazarus
2017-10-28 21:09:32 UTC
Permalink
Post by Marcos Douglas B. Santos via Lazarus
This is a wrong thinking, but it's true and many companies.
Indeed, the ability to get [skilled] replacement developers is very
important to most companies. That plays as much part of the decision
process as the speed of development.

[...this part sent in private...]

Regards,
Graeme
--
fpGUI Toolkit - a cross-platform GUI toolkit using Free Pascal
http://fpgui.sourceforge.net/

My public PGP key: http://tinyurl.com/graeme-pgp
--
Giuliano Colla via Lazarus
2017-10-29 16:24:37 UTC
Permalink
Post by Marcos Douglas B. Santos via Lazarus
Do you have problems to find new Pascal programmers?
Experienced Pascal programmers are hard to find here in Italy.
But we've found that a good young programmer (usually trained in C)
usually appreciates the beauty of Pascal language, becomes fond of it,
and very quickly productive.
As in any case a new programmer must be trained to get acquainted with
company software practices, the extra time required to grasp the
fundamentals of Pascal is almost negligible.

Giuliano

--
Marcos Douglas B. Santos via Lazarus
2017-10-29 16:37:15 UTC
Permalink
On Sun, Oct 29, 2017 at 2:24 PM, Giuliano Colla
Post by Giuliano Colla via Lazarus
Post by Marcos Douglas B. Santos via Lazarus
Do you have problems to find new Pascal programmers?
Experienced Pascal programmers are hard to find here in Italy.
But we've found that a good young programmer (usually trained in C) usually
appreciates the beauty of Pascal language, becomes fond of it, and very
quickly productive.
As in any case a new programmer must be trained to get acquainted with
company software practices, the extra time required to grasp the
fundamentals of Pascal is almost negligible.
In fact, this is a good strategy. But makes me thinking if is
difficult to find C programmers as well.
The C language is old as Pascal. Why people continues learning C but not Pascal?

If Linux had been coded in Pascal, we might have a different history. :)

Regards,
Marcos Douglas
--
Graeme Geldenhuys via Lazarus
2017-10-29 17:08:47 UTC
Permalink
Post by Giuliano Colla via Lazarus
But we've found that a good young programmer (usually trained in C)
usually appreciates the beauty of Pascal language, becomes fond of it,
and very quickly productive.
The problem with that is they don't have the years of experience in
problem solving skills, design etc. Yes they might pump out code pretty
fast, but how good is that code in the long run.

Granted, everybody should be given a chance at some point so they can
learn and improve.

Regards,
Graeme
--
fpGUI Toolkit - a cross-platform GUI toolkit using Free Pascal
http://fpgui.sourceforge.net/

My public PGP key: http://tinyurl.com/graeme-pgp
--
Graeme Geldenhuys via Lazarus
2017-10-28 19:16:56 UTC
Permalink
Post by Giuliano Colla via Lazarus
2. Secondarily, Lazarus IDE is light years better than Delphi IDE.
That is so TRUE. I'm working full-time in a Delphi job again, using XE3
which sadly shows the same issues I saw in a trial version of XE10 - so
in all the "new versions" the same bugs still exist in the latest
product release. What are Delphi developers actually paying for with
their monthly subscriptions??? Clearly nothing is happing in the IDE
front. The joys of the "ransom ware" product model being introduced all
over the world.

Regards,
Graeme
--
fpGUI Toolkit - a cross-platform GUI toolkit using Free Pascal
http://fpgui.sourceforge.net/

My public PGP key: http://tinyurl.com/graeme-pgp
--
Sven Barth via Lazarus
2017-10-29 01:38:08 UTC
Permalink
Am 28.10.2017 21:18 schrieb "Graeme Geldenhuys via Lazarus" <
Post by Giuliano Colla via Lazarus
2. Secondarily, Lazarus IDE is light years better than Delphi IDE.
That is so TRUE. I'm working full-time in a Delphi job again, using XE3
which sadly shows the same issues I saw in a trial version of XE10 - so in
all the "new versions" the same bugs still exist in the latest product
release. What are Delphi developers actually paying for with their monthly
subscriptions??? Clearly nothing is happing in the IDE front. The joys of
the "ransom ware" product model being introduced all over the world.


They all probably don't know what they're missing out on :P

Regards,
Sven
Dmitry Boyarintsev via Lazarus
2017-10-29 02:44:30 UTC
Permalink
Am using FreePascal to create convenience utilities for a web-server
applications. (Due to the limitations of the server technology)
(here's an example of such utility: https://github.com/skalogryz/docusign
though there are more, but the code is not public)

Last year delivered an iOS game. Pure freepascal.
Didn't have enough power/time/will to finish and release Android version
though.
However, for game development, the technology doesn't matter, marketing
does.

thanks,
Dmitry
Ralf Quint via Lazarus
2017-10-27 16:46:03 UTC
Permalink
Post by Marcos Douglas B. Santos via Lazarus
I would like to propose a discussion about "What is the relevance of
Object Pascal nowadays".
I don't want waste your time. I just want to know if we are growing
and being more relevant or not.
I use Object Pascal (mostly FPC, some old Delphi) in production to
make real applications. But we are seeing more and more "new
frameworks", "new technologies" and new languages that are become more
relevant.
What do you think?
If you are looking into all "new" stuff, it's nothing more than turning
into Homer Simpson ("Oh, shiny!"). You spend more time to try and stay
atop of all the latest fads but don't get anything real done. There
might be the one or two things that some of those new gadgets can do
better/easier but in the long run, barely any of them is of
significance, by any count, in a few years...

I can do everything I need to do (and then some) with
FreePascal/Lazarus. Yes, there are some areas where a bit more work is
needed, like being able to create Android/iOS applications with Lazarus
in the way it can be done with Delphi, or creating applications for
macOS. Or coding for embedded stuff with AVR based boards. Something
that IMHO should be put more focus on than adding the latest fads from
other programming languages to the compiler, just because some people
THINK they need this.

Ralf


---
This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
https://www.avast.com/antivirus

--
Marcos Douglas B. Santos via Lazarus
2017-10-28 14:52:54 UTC
Permalink
On Fri, Oct 27, 2017 at 2:46 PM, Ralf Quint via Lazarus
Post by Ralf Quint via Lazarus
If you are looking into all "new" stuff, it's nothing more than turning
into Homer Simpson ("Oh, shiny!"). You spend more time to try and stay
atop of all the latest fads but don't get anything real done. There
might be the one or two things that some of those new gadgets can do
better/easier but in the long run, barely any of them is of
significance, by any count, in a few years...
I totally agree with you. That is one of the reasons that I continue
using Object Pascal.
I work in a company but I work as a freelancer/consultor as well. I
use Object Pascal in both cases, but as I said in other email,
sometimes it is difficult choose Object Pascal to build software for
my clients because they think that it's an obsolete technology.
Post by Ralf Quint via Lazarus
I can do everything I need to do (and then some) with
FreePascal/Lazarus. Yes, there are some areas where a bit more work is
needed, like being able to create Android/iOS applications with Lazarus
in the way it can be done with Delphi, or creating applications for
macOS. Or coding for embedded stuff with AVR based boards. Something
that IMHO should be put more focus on than adding the latest fads from
other programming languages to the compiler, just because some people
THINK they need this.
+1
I agree, again.

Best regards,
Marcos Douglas
--
Sven Barth via Lazarus
2017-10-29 01:36:01 UTC
Permalink
Am 27.10.2017 18:46 schrieb "Ralf Quint via Lazarus" <
***@lists.lazarus-ide.org>:

I can do everything I need to do (and then some) with
FreePascal/Lazarus. Yes, there are some areas where a bit more work is
needed, like being able to create Android/iOS applications with Lazarus
in the way it can be done with Delphi, or creating applications for
macOS. Or coding for embedded stuff with AVR based boards. Something
that IMHO should be put more focus on than adding the latest fads from
other programming languages to the compiler, just because some people
THINK they need this.


Please note that the people working on the compiler and those working on
the Lazarus IDE are nearly completely not the same. So comfortably creating
apps for Android and iOS as well as support for 64-bit macOS apps using
Cocoa is orthogonal to language features.
The only part that tangents the compiler team would be the extended AVR
support, but even then you need people that are interested in it (e.g. I
had worked on the m68k code generator because I wanted, not because someone
told me to).

Regards,
Sven
Daithi Haxton via Lazarus
2017-10-27 23:58:10 UTC
Permalink
Post by Marcos Douglas B. Santos via Lazarus
I would like to propose a discussion about "What is the relevance of
Object Pascal nowadays".
I don't want waste your time. I just want to know if we are growing
and being more relevant or not.
We use Lazarus/Free Pascal to build all of our production applications. These are basically instrumentation packages and data loggers for large machines used in automotive manufacturing and quality control. It’s cross platform (Linux/Windows), fast and easy to use and maintain. What’s not to like?

Be well,
Dave H.


--
Fabio Luis Girardi via Lazarus
2017-10-28 01:35:04 UTC
Permalink
Em 27 de out de 2017 21:58, "Daithi Haxton via Lazarus" <
On Oct 27, 2017, at 8:26 AM, Marcos Douglas B. Santos via Lazarus <
I would like to propose a discussion about "What is the relevance of
Object Pascal nowadays".
I don't want waste your time. I just want to know if we are growing
and being more relevant or not.
We use Lazarus/Free Pascal to build all of our production applications.
These are basically instrumentation packages and data loggers for large
machines used in automotive manufacturing and quality control. It’s cross
platform (Linux/Windows), fast and easy to use and maintain. What’s not to
like?


Hi Dave!

What devices/plc/protocols you are using on your dataloggers?
Daithi Haxton via Lazarus
2017-10-28 13:18:04 UTC
Permalink
Post by Marcos Douglas B. Santos via Lazarus
I would like to propose a discussion about "What is the relevance of
Object Pascal nowadays".
I don't want waste your time. I just want to know if we are growing
and being more relevant or not.
We use Lazarus/Free Pascal to build all of our production applications. These are basically instrumentation packages and data loggers for large machines used in automotive manufacturing and quality control. It’s cross platform (Linux/Windows), fast and easy to use and maintain. What’s not to like?
Hi Dave!
What devices/plc/protocols you are using on your dataloggers?
Our devices are mostly proprietary DSP boards, usually connected via USB but sometimes still serial (Synapse is a great lib for the latter, BTW). We use mostly AB PLC’s, but sometimes Mitsubishi or Siemens, and we communicate to them either via a vendor communication tool (DDE and RS-LINX or TopServer) or using the excellent libplctag (see github) to talk directly.
We’ve looked as Pascal SCADA for HMI work, and will be investigating it further in the future, I can assure you.
The other really nice thing about using Lazarus in our context is the ability to load the development environment directly onto the target machine and debug in a real environment - with Visual Studio or other commercial tools that’s just not practical due to licensing/cost.

Be well,
Dave H.
Marcos Douglas B. Santos via Lazarus
2017-10-28 14:57:06 UTC
Permalink
On Fri, Oct 27, 2017 at 9:58 PM, Daithi Haxton via Lazarus
Post by Daithi Haxton via Lazarus
Post by Marcos Douglas B. Santos via Lazarus
I would like to propose a discussion about "What is the relevance of
Object Pascal nowadays".
I don't want waste your time. I just want to know if we are growing
and being more relevant or not.
We use Lazarus/Free Pascal to build all of our production applications.
These are basically instrumentation packages and data loggers for large
machines used in automotive manufacturing and quality control. It’s cross
platform (Linux/Windows), fast and easy to use and maintain.
I see many developers working with Object Pascal in similar cases:
Machines, embedded, etc.
That's really cool... However, is a kind of niche, right?
Post by Daithi Haxton via Lazarus
What’s not to like?
:)

Best regards,
Marcos Douglas
--
Paul Breneman via Lazarus
2017-10-28 15:22:31 UTC
Permalink
Post by Marcos Douglas B. Santos via Lazarus
On Fri, Oct 27, 2017 at 9:58 PM, Daithi Haxton via Lazarus
Post by Daithi Haxton via Lazarus
Post by Marcos Douglas B. Santos via Lazarus
I would like to propose a discussion about "What is the relevance of
Object Pascal nowadays".
I don't want waste your time. I just want to know if we are growing
and being more relevant or not.
We use Lazarus/Free Pascal to build all of our production applications.
These are basically instrumentation packages and data loggers for large
machines used in automotive manufacturing and quality control. It’s cross
platform (Linux/Windows), fast and easy to use and maintain.
Machines, embedded, etc.
That's really cool... However, is a kind of niche, right?
Yes, but such niches are *nice* so if anyone wants to help out please
join me: www.ControlPascal.com
--
Marcos Douglas B. Santos via Lazarus
2017-10-28 20:23:25 UTC
Permalink
On Sat, Oct 28, 2017 at 1:22 PM, Paul Breneman via Lazarus
Post by Marcos Douglas B. Santos via Lazarus
On Fri, Oct 27, 2017 at 9:58 PM, Daithi Haxton via Lazarus
On Oct 27, 2017, at 8:26 AM, Marcos Douglas B. Santos via Lazarus
Machines, embedded, etc.
That's really cool... However, is a kind of niche, right?
Yes, but such niches are *nice* so if anyone wants to help out please join
me: www.ControlPascal.com
Yeah, of course they are. I said that only to understand better. Thanks.

Regards,
Marcos Douglas

PS. For me the website is down.
--
Michael Thompson via Lazarus
2017-10-28 00:39:18 UTC
Permalink
On 27 October 2017 at 20:26, Marcos Douglas B. Santos via Lazarus <
Post by Marcos Douglas B. Santos via Lazarus
I would like to propose a discussion about "What is the relevance of
Object Pascal nowadays".
I don't want waste your time. I just want to know if we are growing
and being more relevant or not.
I'm no longer a commercial developer. However, I continue to carry Lazarus
around on a USB key. I frequently work away from home, but where-ever I
am, whatever I'm working on, I can develop tools to make data processing
easier. Why Laz/fpc? wiki/forum/mailing list always have the answers, and
there's a great community. Lazarus & Freepascal are both strong mature
tools. Wonderful set of packages ship with Lazarus - far more than I need.
I also carry around CCR (I recently used fpspreadsheet for the first time -
awesome product). Only library I use that's not provided as part of the
Lazarus package is ZEOS for it's Oracle connection.

I keep being surprised by Lazarus. Just keeps going from strength to
strength.

Mike
Marcos Douglas B. Santos via Lazarus
2017-10-28 20:16:48 UTC
Permalink
On Fri, Oct 27, 2017 at 10:39 PM, Michael Thompson
Post by Michael Thompson via Lazarus
I'm no longer a commercial developer. However, I continue to carry Lazarus
around on a USB key. I frequently work away from home, but where-ever I am,
whatever I'm working on, I can develop tools to make data processing easier.
I do the same. I have a portable HD with all my environment that is
synchronized every week. It is simple to maintain and portable.
I've never tried do the same with C# or Java environments... :)
Post by Michael Thompson via Lazarus
Why Laz/fpc? wiki/forum/mailing list always have the answers, and there's a
great community. Lazarus & Freepascal are both strong mature tools.
I agree.
But, being a "advocate of the devil" and considering other
languages/environments, don't you agree that Lazarus & Freepascal
could be just a "drop of water in the whole ocean"?
Post by Michael Thompson via Lazarus
Wonderful set of packages ship with Lazarus - far more than I need. I also
carry around CCR (I recently used fpspreadsheet for the first time - awesome
product). Only library I use that's not provided as part of the Lazarus
package is ZEOS for it's Oracle connection.
I keep being surprised by Lazarus. Just keeps going from strength to
strength.
Yeah. Lazarus and FPC is growing faster nowadays.

Best regards,
Marcos Douglas
--
coppolastudio via Lazarus
2017-10-28 04:21:25 UTC
Permalink
--
R0b0t1 via Lazarus
2017-10-28 04:26:13 UTC
Permalink
On Fri, Oct 27, 2017 at 7:26 AM, Marcos Douglas B. Santos via Lazarus
Post by Marcos Douglas B. Santos via Lazarus
I would like to propose a discussion about "What is the relevance of
Object Pascal nowadays".
I don't want waste your time. I just want to know if we are growing
and being more relevant or not.
I use Object Pascal (mostly FPC, some old Delphi) in production to
make real applications. But we are seeing more and more "new
frameworks", "new technologies" and new languages that are become more
relevant.
What do you think?
Hello,

I work with a project (Simba: http://wizzup.org/simba/) that was
written in FreePascal using Lazarus. One of the main issues with Simba
was the necessity of creating wrappers for most of what needed to be
accomplished. On a more personal note, I find Lazarus very useful for
quick GUI prototypes, but the lack of supporting infrastructure makes
it hard to use sometimes.

I appreciate the development that does take place and wish more could.
I have tried to find ways to help off and on, but all the problems
that are left are very involved.

A more impressive contribution to the list was planned but I forgot
what I was going to write. However, if you wanted to know if what you
do is useful, then yes, I think it is.

Cheers,
R0b0t1.
--
Alexander Klenin via Lazarus
2017-10-28 06:07:54 UTC
Permalink
On Fri, Oct 27, 2017 at 11:26 PM, Marcos Douglas B. Santos via Lazarus
Post by Marcos Douglas B. Santos via Lazarus
I would like to propose a discussion about "What is the relevance of
Object Pascal nowadays".
I don't want waste your time. I just want to know if we are growing
and being more relevant or not.
For many years I have advocated first Delphi, then FreePascal/Lazarus
as a teaching tool for both high school and introductory university.
Historically, Delphi/Lazarus offered superior IDE experience,
while the language itself was both beginner-friendly and powerful when
learned completely.

Sadly, while on IDE front other IDEs are catching up
(for example, form designers in both Visual Studio 2017 and latest Qt
are almost as good, and in some aspects better),
the language continues to lag behind so much that even 8th graders are starting
to complain about missing features.
Older teachers who prefer Pascal syntax moved to PascalABC,
which displaced perhaps 90% of FPC usage in Russian high schools.

Finally, FPC became almost completely unsuitable for competitive programming,
which drives away influential part of next programmers generation.
At the last year International Olympiad in Informatics I have given a
passionate speech
against excluding Free Pascal from a list of available languages,
and succeeded in postponing that decision for a few years,
but the writing is still on the wall.

So reluctantly I started to phase out FPC/Lazarus in my work
in favor of PascalABC/Python for high school and С++/C# for university.
For the record, C# is the only language in that list that I like.
--
Alexander S. Klenin
--
R0b0t1 via Lazarus
2017-10-28 15:34:52 UTC
Permalink
On Saturday, October 28, 2017, Alexander Klenin via Lazarus <
Post by Alexander Klenin via Lazarus
On Fri, Oct 27, 2017 at 11:26 PM, Marcos Douglas B. Santos via Lazarus
Post by Marcos Douglas B. Santos via Lazarus
I would like to propose a discussion about "What is the relevance of
Object Pascal nowadays".
I don't want waste your time. I just want to know if we are growing
and being more relevant or not.
For many years I have advocated first Delphi, then FreePascal/Lazarus
as a teaching tool for both high school and introductory university.
Historically, Delphi/Lazarus offered superior IDE experience,
while the language itself was both beginner-friendly and powerful when
learned completely.
Sadly, while on IDE front other IDEs are catching up
(for example, form designers in both Visual Studio 2017 and latest Qt
are almost as good, and in some aspects better),
the language continues to lag behind so much that even 8th graders are starting
to complain about missing features.
Older teachers who prefer Pascal syntax moved to PascalABC,
which displaced perhaps 90% of FPC usage in Russian high schools.
I think this really captures what I wanted to say. Rapid development as a
design methodology seems to have been publicly discredited and forgotten
about, yet people still continue to buy Delphi. The basic design principles
that FreePascal and Lazarus implement are still relevant but the
presentation is a little rough around the edges.
Post by Alexander Klenin via Lazarus
Finally, FPC became almost completely unsuitable for competitive programming,
which drives away influential part of next programmers generation.
At the last year International Olympiad in Informatics I have given a
passionate speech
against excluding Free Pascal from a list of available languages,
and succeeded in postponing that decision for a few years,
but the writing is still on the wall.
So reluctantly I started to phase out FPC/Lazarus in my work
in favor of PascalABC/Python for high school and С++/C# for university.
For the record, C# is the only language in that list that I like.
I found something similar. Do you think you can add to your explanation of
why it is no longer competitive?

Cheers,
R0b0t1.
Alexander Klenin via Lazarus
2017-10-28 16:00:33 UTC
Permalink
Post by R0b0t1 via Lazarus
Post by Alexander Klenin via Lazarus
Finally, FPC became almost completely unsuitable for competitive programming,
which drives away influential part of next programmers generation.
At the last year International Olympiad in Informatics I have given a
passionate speech
against excluding Free Pascal from a list of available languages,
and succeeded in postponing that decision for a few years,
but the writing is still on the wall.
So reluctantly I started to phase out FPC/Lazarus in my work
in favor of PascalABC/Python for high school and С++/C# for university.
For the record, C# is the only language in that list that I like.
I found something similar. Do you think you can add to your explanation of
why it is no longer competitive?
At first popularity declined because Pascal did not have efficient
data structures and algorithms in standard library
(which is ironic for a language introduced in a book named "Algorithms
+ Data Structures").
Now, community simply forgot about it.
I heard children use "you program in Pascal" as a taunt meaning "you
are not well-educated" :)
--
Alexander S. Klenin
--
Graeme Geldenhuys via Lazarus
2017-10-28 19:11:52 UTC
Permalink
Post by Alexander Klenin via Lazarus
I heard children use "you program in Pascal" as a taunt meaning "you
are not well-educated":)
And the irony is that THEY are probably not well educated on the
subject. :-D

Regards,
Graeme

--
Samuel Herzog via Lazarus
2017-10-29 10:23:21 UTC
Permalink
Hello,
I earning my money as delphi developer (now 20years).In the freetime I support Lazarus/FPC.
The system I wrote (in the company) is in-house software usedby about 150 users per day. (it's built with D7)
D7 was fast/stable. We bought several new versions of Delphi in the past 13years butnone of the new versions was as handy as D7.But now I am working with Delphi XE 10.2 Tokyo and I must say it's very ok! I can recommend it.I would say they are back again :-) ( Hopefully they will remove the dependency to .NET-stuff )

Now let's talk a little about Lazarus...It's incredible which progress this project has made!The recent improvements in the IDE and Installer area (fpcupdeluxe and online package manager) makethings really better for new users.
To attract more/new users to Object-Pascal "universe" the following things would help:  (applies for both Delphi and Lazarus)

A) a way to give a whole project from one developer to another developer. (no fiddeling around with missing packages/components/paths/environment-path).    e.g. a Menu-Option "Export-Project" which creates a bundle with all necessary files)B) Examples that work out of the box. ( when I choose examples in Lazarus, half of them do not work).C) Beginner Videos.


Sam
Juha Manninen via Lazarus
2017-10-29 10:51:59 UTC
Permalink
On Sun, Oct 29, 2017 at 12:23 PM, Samuel Herzog via Lazarus
Post by Samuel Herzog via Lazarus
B) Examples that work out of the box. ( when I choose examples in Lazarus,
half of them do not work).
We would need a list of those.
I remember I went through the examples some time ago and they compiled
and also worked somehow.
I tested only on Linux (GTK2 and QT), don't know about other widgetsets.

Juha
--
Carlos E. R. via Lazarus
2017-10-29 13:01:23 UTC
Permalink
Post by Samuel Herzog via Lazarus
To attract more/new users to Object-Pascal "universe" the following things would help:  (applies for both Delphi and Lazarus)
A) a way to give a whole project from one developer to another developer. (no fiddeling around with missing
packages/components/paths/environment-path).
    e.g. a Menu-Option "Export-Project" which creates a bundle with all necessary files)
Interesting.
Post by Samuel Herzog via Lazarus
B) Examples that work out of the box. ( when I choose examples in Lazarus, half of them do not work).
This is sadly true.

I have come back to Pascal (I previously used Borland Pascal a lot, but
not Delphi), I love Lazarus, and I needed to see current day examples of
things, but some of them fail to build or crash instantly. I don't have a
list.

I also find very confusing that libraries for similar purposes exist and
it is not easy to choose one. I could not see documentation on what a
library to use and which not to use.
Post by Samuel Herzog via Lazarus
C) Beginner Videos.
I don't like videos very much, dunno. I prefer docs with photos. After
all, code is text...

- --
Cheers,
Carlos E. R.
(from openSUSE 42.2 x86_64 "Malachite" at Telcontar)
Werner Pamler via Lazarus
2017-10-29 14:42:15 UTC
Permalink
Post by Samuel Herzog via Lazarus
B) Examples that work out of the box. ( when I choose examples in
Lazarus, half of them do not work).
This is sadly true.
Certainly not. I spent the previous hours checking all demos in the
examples folder under Windows 10, and the vast majority of them is
working. The only one I could not get around with is the fpdocmanager
example with uses two units that I have never seen. A few issues with
other examples were fixed.

Instead of complaining that examples are not working you should write a
bugreport, and it will be fixed. It is a damn boring job looking through
almost 100 demos...
--
Carlos E. R. via Lazarus
2017-10-29 15:04:23 UTC
Permalink
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Post by Samuel Herzog via Lazarus
B) Examples that work out of the box. ( when I choose examples in Lazarus,
half of them do not work).
This is sadly true.
Certainly not. I spent the previous hours checking all demos in the examples
folder under Windows 10, and the vast majority of them is working. The only
one I could not get around with is the fpdocmanager example with uses two
units that I have never seen. A few issues with other examples were fixed.
Well, I use Linux :-)

Of course not all examples fail, and maybe some were corrected since I
tried.
Instead of complaining that examples are not working you should write a
bugreport, and it will be fixed. It is a damn boring job looking through
almost 100 demos...
Well, I can try, but I have no idea where/how to report bugs.

- --
Cheers,
Carlos E. R.
(from openSUSE Linux 42.2 x86_64 "Malachite" at Telcontar)

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--
Juha Manninen via Lazarus
2017-10-29 15:20:54 UTC
Permalink
On Sun, Oct 29, 2017 at 5:04 PM, Carlos E. R. via Lazarus
Post by Carlos E. R. via Lazarus
Well, I use Linux :-)
I also use Linux and I have tested them, too.
Post by Carlos E. R. via Lazarus
Of course not all examples fail, and maybe some were corrected since I
tried.
When did you try?
Post by Carlos E. R. via Lazarus
Well, I can try, but I have no idea where/how to report bugs.
You could for example list the broken examples here. That's what I
asked earlier.
I doubt you will do it. Clearly this is yet another rant without substance.
First Samuel Herzog pulls a complaint from his hat. Then you repeat it
without testing.

Juha
--
Carlos E. R. via Lazarus
2017-10-29 22:48:14 UTC
Permalink
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Hash: SHA1
Post by Juha Manninen via Lazarus
Post by Carlos E. R. via Lazarus
Well, I use Linux :-)
I also use Linux and I have tested them, too.
Post by Carlos E. R. via Lazarus
Of course not all examples fail, and maybe some were corrected since I
tried.
When did you try?
About a year ago or more.
Post by Juha Manninen via Lazarus
Post by Carlos E. R. via Lazarus
Well, I can try, but I have no idea where/how to report bugs.
You could for example list the broken examples here. That's what I
asked earlier.
Sorry, I didn't see it. In this thread? I don't read all threads.
Post by Juha Manninen via Lazarus
I doubt you will do it. Clearly this is yet another rant without substance.
First Samuel Herzog pulls a complaint from his hat. Then you repeat it
without testing.
If you are really interested in me testing, I will test.
I know for sure that some samples did not work, but I did not take notes.

Ok, I look now, randomly, at "testapp.lpi". Build fails at:

testapp.pas(38,2) Fatal: Cannot open include file "platform.inc"

sources are old, so I refresh them. [...] I do, but the error remains.

Project is at:

/usr/share/fpcsrc/packages/fv/examples/testapp.lpi

Missing file does exist, at:

/usr/share/doc/packages/fpc/examples/fv/examples/platform.inc
/usr/share/fpcsrc/packages/fv/src/platform.inc


and I copied the tree to my home dir. I have not looked at what may be the
cause, but doing so may be offtopic for this thread. Maybe the paths are
broken because the project was copied to HOME. Maybe the project is not
intended for Linux, I don't know.


- --
Cheers,
Carlos E. R.
(from openSUSE 42.2 x86_64 "Malachite" at Telcontar)

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--
Juha Manninen via Lazarus
2017-10-29 22:59:31 UTC
Permalink
On Mon, Oct 30, 2017 at 12:48 AM, Carlos E. R. via Lazarus
Post by Carlos E. R. via Lazarus
About a year ago or more.
...
/usr/share/fpcsrc/packages/fv/examples/testapp.lpi
Ok, this was about FPC examples. I assumed Lazarus examples because
this is Lazarus list.
A year ago there may have been more broken Lazarus examples, too, but
most of them are now checked.

It would make sense to report the FPC example issue.

Juha
--
Carlos E. R. via Lazarus
2017-10-29 23:13:36 UTC
Permalink
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1
Post by Juha Manninen via Lazarus
Post by Carlos E. R. via Lazarus
About a year ago or more.
...
/usr/share/fpcsrc/packages/fv/examples/testapp.lpi
Ok, this was about FPC examples. I assumed Lazarus examples because
this is Lazarus list.
A year ago there may have been more broken Lazarus examples, too, but
most of them are now checked.
It would make sense to report the FPC example issue.
I don't really differentiate between the IDE and the compiler, sorry. I
mean, I know they are different projects, but still... both have to work
together. I don't remember what examples I have tried, I just went for the
first one I could find with "open project". An .lpi file is a Lazarus
project file, right?

And where does one report fpc issues such as that one, is it another mail
list?

- --
Cheers,
Carlos E. R.
(from openSUSE 42.2 x86_64 "Malachite" at Telcontar)

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--
Sven Barth via Lazarus
2017-10-30 06:56:06 UTC
Permalink
Am 30.10.2017 00:14 schrieb "Carlos E. R. via Lazarus" <
***@lists.lazarus-ide.org>:

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1
Post by Juha Manninen via Lazarus
Post by Carlos E. R. via Lazarus
About a year ago or more.
...
/usr/share/fpcsrc/packages/fv/examples/testapp.lpi
Ok, this was about FPC examples. I assumed Lazarus examples because
this is Lazarus list.
A year ago there may have been more broken Lazarus examples, too, but
most of them are now checked.
It would make sense to report the FPC example issue.
I don't really differentiate between the IDE and the compiler, sorry. I
mean, I know they are different projects, but still... both have to work
together. I don't remember what examples I have tried, I just went for the
first one I could find with "open project". An .lpi file is a Lazarus
project file, right?

And where does one report fpc issues such as that one, is it another mail
list?


Yes, it's fpc-pascal and you can find it here:
https://freepascal.org/maillist.var

Alternatively you can use the bug tracker that both projects share at
https://bugs.freepascal.org/

Regards,
Sven
Juha Manninen via Lazarus
2017-10-30 08:21:25 UTC
Permalink
On Mon, Oct 30, 2017 at 8:56 AM, Sven Barth via Lazarus
Post by Sven Barth via Lazarus
Alternatively you can use the bug tracker that both projects share at
https://bugs.freepascal.org/
FYI, those bugs should be reported against FPC trunk which already
differs a lot from the release version, due to the slow release cycle.

Juha
--
Carlos E. R. via Lazarus
2017-10-30 12:30:55 UTC
Permalink
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Post by Juha Manninen via Lazarus
Post by Sven Barth via Lazarus
https://freepascal.org/maillist.var
Alternatively you can use the bug tracker that both projects share at
https://bugs.freepascal.org/
FYI, those bugs should be reported against FPC trunk which already
differs a lot from the release version, due to the slow release cycle.
Oh, but I'm not going to install the trunk version, sorry.

- --
Cheers,
Carlos E. R.
(from openSUSE 42.2 x86_64 "Malachite" at Telcontar)

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--
Alexsander Rosa via Lazarus
2017-11-27 18:54:24 UTC
Permalink
Our ERP (version 3) was written in Lazarus + PostgreSQL.



2017-10-30 10:30 GMT-02:00 Carlos E. R. via Lazarus <
Post by Carlos E. R. via Lazarus
-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1
Post by Juha Manninen via Lazarus
Post by Sven Barth via Lazarus
https://freepascal.org/maillist.var
Alternatively you can use the bug tracker that both projects share at
https://bugs.freepascal.org/
FYI, those bugs should be reported against FPC trunk which already
differs a lot from the release version, due to the slow release cycle.
Oh, but I'm not going to install the trunk version, sorry.
- -- Cheers,
Carlos E. R.
(from openSUSE 42.2 x86_64 "Malachite" at Telcontar)
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--
_______________________________________________
Lazarus mailing list
https://lists.lazarus-ide.org/listinfo/lazarus
--
Atenciosamente,
Alexsander da Rosa
Marcos Douglas B. Santos via Lazarus
2017-11-27 19:23:21 UTC
Permalink
On Mon, Nov 27, 2017 at 4:54 PM, Alexsander Rosa via Lazarus
Post by Alexsander Rosa via Lazarus
Our ERP (version 3) was written in Lazarus + PostgreSQL.
Is it desktop or web?

Best regards,
Marcos Douglas
--
Alexsander Rosa via Lazarus
2017-12-04 16:25:37 UTC
Permalink
RNGE 3 = desktop app, Windows and Linux.

We wrote a blog about the porting effort (from D7 to Lazarus):
http://port2laz.blogspot.com.br/2011/01/news-from-front.html






2017-11-27 17:23 GMT-02:00 Marcos Douglas B. Santos via Lazarus <
Post by Marcos Douglas B. Santos via Lazarus
On Mon, Nov 27, 2017 at 4:54 PM, Alexsander Rosa via Lazarus
Post by Alexsander Rosa via Lazarus
Our ERP (version 3) was written in Lazarus + PostgreSQL.
Is it desktop or web?
Best regards,
Marcos Douglas
--
_______________________________________________
Lazarus mailing list
https://lists.lazarus-ide.org/listinfo/lazarus
--
Atenciosamente,
Alexsander da Rosa
Mattias Gaertner via Lazarus
2017-10-29 15:21:46 UTC
Permalink
On Sun, 29 Oct 2017 16:04:23 +0100 (CET)
Post by Carlos E. R. via Lazarus
[...]
Well, I can try, but I have no idea where/how to report bugs.
http://wiki.lazarus.freepascal.org/How_do_I_create_a_bug_report

Mattias
--
R0b0t1 via Lazarus
2017-10-29 15:15:18 UTC
Permalink
Hello friends,

On Sunday, October 29, 2017, Samuel Herzog via Lazarus <
Post by R0b0t1 via Lazarus
Hello,
I earning my money as delphi developer (now 20years).
In the freetime I support Lazarus/FPC.
The system I wrote (in the company) is in-house software used
by about 150 users per day. (it's built with D7)
D7 was fast/stable. We bought several new versions of Delphi in the past
13years but
Post by R0b0t1 via Lazarus
none of the new versions was as handy as D7.
But now I am working with Delphi XE 10.2 Tokyo and I must say it's very
ok! I can recommend it.
Post by R0b0t1 via Lazarus
I would say they are back again :-) ( Hopefully they will remove the
dependency to .NET-stuff )
Post by R0b0t1 via Lazarus
Now let's talk a little about Lazarus...
It's incredible which progress this project has made!
The recent improvements in the IDE and Installer area (fpcupdeluxe and
online package manager) make
Post by R0b0t1 via Lazarus
things really better for new users.
To attract more/new users to Object-Pascal "universe" the following
things would help: (applies for both Delphi and Lazarus)
Post by R0b0t1 via Lazarus
A) a way to give a whole project from one developer to another developer.
(no fiddeling around with missing
packages/components/paths/environment-path).
Post by R0b0t1 via Lazarus
e.g. a Menu-Option "Export-Project" which creates a bundle with all
necessary files)

This is something else I forgot to touch on in my dimwittedness.

My experience with a multi-user project (Simba) that targeted Windows/Linux
was very poor. It was hard to keep the project in a state that made it
buildable on both OSes or even multiple. Eventually these issues were
overcome, but there still seems to be a lot of hidden complexity that makes
it hard to create reproducible builds and help new developers set up an
evironment.

Cheers,
R0b0t1.
Santiago A. via Lazarus
2017-12-05 09:03:44 UTC
Permalink
Post by Samuel Herzog via Lazarus
A) a way to give a whole project from one developer to another
developer. (no fiddeling around with missing
packages/components/paths/environment-path).
    e.g. a Menu-Option "Export-Project" which creates a bundle with
all necessary files)
B) Examples that work out of the box. ( when I choose examples in
Lazarus, half of them do not work).
C) Beginner Videos.
D) A debugger that can debug TStringList.text and other properties with
getter.
--
Saludos

Santiago A.
Schindler Karl-Michael via Lazarus
2017-10-29 11:02:22 UTC
Permalink
Hi

My use is probably just another nice niche:

Creating a nice GUI wrapper in Lazarus/Object Pascal for heavy numerical simulation routines written in Fortran.

Michael.
--
R0b0t1 via Lazarus
2017-10-29 15:17:44 UTC
Permalink
Hello friends,

On Sunday, October 29, 2017, Schindler Karl-Michael via Lazarus <
Post by Schindler Karl-Michael via Lazarus
Hi
Creating a nice GUI wrapper in Lazarus/Object Pascal for heavy numerical
simulation routines written in Fortran.
I have seen thisna few places. Lazarus still has the best form designer I
have used.

Cheers,
R0b0t1.
Dennis via Lazarus
2017-10-30 03:47:43 UTC
Permalink
Post by Marcos Douglas B. Santos via Lazarus
I would like to propose a discussion about "What is the relevance of
Object Pascal nowadays".
I don't want waste your time. I just want to know if we are growing
and being more relevant or not.
I use FPC/Lazarus to write a program trading software to trade
futures/options. I chose it because I need it to run on windows and
(maybe in future) Linux and Mac OS.
Could not use Java,C# because garbage collection and JIT compiler might
cause the program to freeze in the middle of critical trading, which is
utterly unacceptable for trading.

FPC is also clean and easy to maintain and can actually do anything. I
might lack some new syntax to speed up parallel programming or
functional programming but those could still be achieved with a bit work.
I don't want to invest in a new language just for a few new features but
risk making some programming errors since I don't fully understand the
language.
Also, new languages come and gone so fast. I remember Flash's language
was hot some years ago but now discarded.

Also FPC's compile time is short compared to many other languages.

Dennis
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Marcos Douglas B. Santos via Lazarus
2017-10-30 11:13:47 UTC
Permalink
On Mon, Oct 30, 2017 at 1:47 AM, Dennis via Lazarus
Post by Dennis via Lazarus
I use FPC/Lazarus to write a program trading software to trade
futures/options. I chose it because I need it to run on windows and (maybe
in future) Linux and Mac OS.
Could not use Java,C# because garbage collection and JIT compiler might
cause the program to freeze in the middle of critical trading, which is
utterly unacceptable for trading.
Some people say the same about garbage collection, but others don't.
They tell the code could be wrong.
But I agree with you.
Post by Dennis via Lazarus
FPC is also clean and easy to maintain and can actually do anything. I might
lack some new syntax to speed up parallel programming or functional
programming but those could still be achieved with a bit work.
I don't want to invest in a new language just for a few new features but
risk making some programming errors since I don't fully understand the
language.
Also, new languages come and gone so fast. I remember Flash's language was
hot some years ago but now discarded.
Also FPC's compile time is short compared to many other languages.
Thanks for sharing this.

Best regards,
Marcos Douglas
--
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