Discussion:
Wiki instructions for installing FPC trunk
(too old to reply)
Juha Manninen
2010-06-27 17:34:26 UTC
Permalink
I updated info about building and installing svn trunk version of FPC
compiler, based on mails from Marc and Graeme earlier. Here:

http://wiki.lazarus.freepascal.org/Getting_Lazarus#svn_trunk_version_of_fpc

It is part of a long messy page, Getting_Lazarus, which could be cleaned a
lot.
This is a typical problem with wiki pages. The contents may be good and
accurate but nobody takes care of the overall structure. I could try to clean
it in future but now let's check this FPC installation part.
There was a text (not by me):


There are many ways to compile and install FPC. You can use plain make (see
below), but it is recommended to build a fpc package for your distribution
(.deb or .rpm file). A fpc package allows to easily uninstall, upgrade and
downgrade it and a package makes sure that all files are installed at the
common places. So if something goes wrong, other users know how to help you.


The text "You can use plain make (see below)" was a ToDo item I guess.
I added info for "make all" and "make install" under section "Building and
installing the svn version of fpc".

Then it says "it is recommended to build a fpc package for your distribution
(.deb or .rpm file)".
Why would it be recommended? I tried to build such RPM package when installing
FPC trunk for the first time, but I failed.
Still I was able to install it using "make all" and "make install" and it has
been very easy to update since then.
So, I would say making a distro package is the more difficult way and the
recommendation should be changed.

Someone please check that the facts are correct in my wiki changes.


Juha
Mattias Gaertner
2010-06-27 17:40:11 UTC
Permalink
On Sun, 27 Jun 2010 20:34:26 +0300
Post by Juha Manninen
I updated info about building and installing svn trunk version of FPC
http://wiki.lazarus.freepascal.org/Getting_Lazarus#svn_trunk_version_of_fpc
It is part of a long messy page, Getting_Lazarus, which could be cleaned a
lot.
This is a typical problem with wiki pages. The contents may be good and
accurate but nobody takes care of the overall structure. I could try to clean
it in future but now let's check this FPC installation part.
There are many ways to compile and install FPC. You can use plain make (see
below), but it is recommended to build a fpc package for your distribution
(.deb or .rpm file). A fpc package allows to easily uninstall, upgrade and
downgrade it and a package makes sure that all files are installed at the
common places. So if something goes wrong, other users know how to help you.
The text "You can use plain make (see below)" was a ToDo item I guess.
I added info for "make all" and "make install" under section "Building and
installing the svn version of fpc".
Then it says "it is recommended to build a fpc package for your distribution
(.deb or .rpm file)".
Why would it be recommended? I tried to build such RPM package when installing
FPC trunk for the first time, but I failed.
... then the rpm should be fixed.
Post by Juha Manninen
Still I was able to install it using "make all" and "make install" and it has
been very easy to update since then.
For example because "make install"
-does not update your fpc.cfg,
-does not update the symlink under Linux (is this still the case?),
-no uninstall
-installs under Linux under /usr/local/lib, while the
packages install under /usr/lib

Everyone of them easily leads to 'strange' compilation errors and the
mailing list, forums and chats are full of questions from people which
use "make install".
Post by Juha Manninen
So, I would say making a distro package is the more difficult way and the
recommendation should be changed.
For those wanting to use make install, the wiki should
point to Marcos howto.
Post by Juha Manninen
Someone please check that the facts are correct in my wiki changes.
Mattias

--
Chris Kirkpatrick
2010-06-27 17:51:02 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mattias Gaertner
For example because "make install"
-does not update your fpc.cfg,
-does not update the symlink under Linux (is this still the case?),
-no uninstall
-installs under Linux under /usr/local/lib, while the
packages install under /usr/lib
In my experience, packages install under /usr/lib; svn compilation with
"make install" installs under /usr/lib, and only software downloaded as
.tarballs to compile and "make install" gets installed in
/usr/local/lib. Check, and beware!!
Chris


--
Mattias Gaertner
2010-06-27 17:58:05 UTC
Permalink
On Sun, 27 Jun 2010 18:51:02 +0100
Post by Chris Kirkpatrick
Post by Mattias Gaertner
For example because "make install"
-does not update your fpc.cfg,
-does not update the symlink under Linux (is this still the case?),
-no uninstall
-installs under Linux under /usr/local/lib, while the
packages install under /usr/lib
In my experience, packages install under /usr/lib; svn compilation with
"make install" installs under /usr/lib, and only software downloaded as
.tarballs to compile and "make install" gets installed in
/usr/local/lib. Check, and beware!!
Checked:
make install

/usr/local/lib/fpc/2.5.1

Mattias

--
Marco van de Voort
2010-06-27 18:32:18 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mattias Gaertner
-installs under Linux under /usr/local/lib, while the
packages install under /usr/lib
Depends on the distribution and package conventions of that package system.


--
Paul Ishenin
2010-06-28 00:23:26 UTC
Permalink
Post by Marco van de Voort
Post by Mattias Gaertner
-installs under Linux under /usr/local/lib, while the
packages install under /usr/lib
Depends on the distribution and package conventions of that package system.
Can be fixed at least for ubuntu? I think the majority use it now.

Best regards,
Paul Ishenin.


--
Juha Manninen
2010-06-27 20:22:46 UTC
Permalink
Post by Mattias Gaertner
Post by Juha Manninen
Then it says "it is recommended to build a fpc package for your
distribution (.deb or .rpm file)".
Why would it be recommended? I tried to build such RPM package when
installing FPC trunk for the first time, but I failed.
... then the rpm should be fixed.
There is no ready-made rpm for trunk version available. Now we are talking
about building the rpm package, not using an existing one.
Post by Mattias Gaertner
For example because "make install"
...
-installs under Linux under /usr/local/lib, while the packages install under
/usr/lib

Following the new wiki instructions it goes to your home directory :
make install INSTALL_PREFIX=~
Post by Mattias Gaertner
Everyone of them easily leads to 'strange' compilation errors and the
mailing list, forums and chats are full of questions from people which
use "make install".
Maybe because it is not documented in a brief way, in a place easy to find.
Post by Mattias Gaertner
For those wanting to use make install, the wiki should
point to Marcos howto.
Sorry, where is it? I have seen it but don't find it now.

Mattias, based on your comments someone could think installing the svn version
of FPC is difficult. No, it is very easy. The section I added to wiki is
rather short.:
http://wiki.lazarus.freepascal.org/Getting_Lazarus#Building_and_installing_the_svn_version_of_fpc

When I first installed the trunk FPC myself, I copied fpc.cfg from /etc and
edited it using a trial-and-error method, because at that moment I didn't have
time and patience to read the big FPC developers' manual.

Now I copied a short (4 lines) version from Marc Weustink's mail. It is really
so easy there is no reason to keep it as a secret, or to give the impression
that it is a difficult task.


Regards,
Juha

--
waldo kitty
2010-06-28 01:14:10 UTC
Permalink
Post by Juha Manninen
Post by Mattias Gaertner
Post by Juha Manninen
Then it says "it is recommended to build a fpc package for your
distribution (.deb or .rpm file)".
Why would it be recommended? I tried to build such RPM package when
installing FPC trunk for the first time, but I failed.
... then the rpm should be fixed.
There is no ready-made rpm for trunk version available. Now we are talking
about building the rpm package, not using an existing one.
that's my understanding from your post, as well...

FWIW: i'm glad that someone who knows more details than many "newbies" (and
there are different categories of "newbie") is working thru this to make things
easier for them... i'm not a "newbie" in the strict sense but i am to the
FPC/LAZ stuff (even though i've been reading and lightly participating for a
year or more) and many things are not as easy as they appear to be... not only
in the *nix side of an install but also with other OS'...

as you say, the wiki is "OK" for some stuff but it leaves a lot to be desired...
i can't count the hours i've spent wading thru the wiki(s) trying to absorb the
information and then to apply it in a reasonable and logical fashion only to
fail and fail and fail... after that, i feel it best to keep reading and trying
to learn more in case i missed some subtle point rather than to vent my
frustrations on the list(s)... deity knows that i (and others similar to me)
cannot update the wiki stuff when we are unable to make things work... i have,
however, found some places where instructions were apparently for older versions
and haven't been updated for the newer releases... all i can do is try to
persevere and hope that a solution comes to light sooner rather than later...

i, for one, greatly appreciate your efforts and your posts in this aspect...
thank you very much... not only from myself but others who find themselves in my
situation and who don't post in these lists or even carry them...

--
Mark Morgan Lloyd
2010-06-28 09:21:38 UTC
Permalink
Post by Juha Manninen
There are many ways to compile and install FPC. You can use plain make (see
below), but it is recommended to build a fpc package for your distribution
(.deb or .rpm file). A fpc package allows to easily uninstall, upgrade and
downgrade it and a package makes sure that all files are installed at the
common places. So if something goes wrong, other users know how to help you.
If something goes wrong with installation from a .deb or .rpm, then
users of Debian/Ubuntu or Red Hat might know how to help you, but it
does not necessarily make things easier for FPC or Lazarus developers.

If the distro were guaranteed to be stable for a few years that would
justify the project developers familiarising themselves with it, or if
the project was stable that would make things easy for the distro
managers. Unfortunately neither of those is the case.

My solution is to let the distro (in my case Debian) manage libraries,
middleware and "capital apps" like Mozilla and Open Office, recognising
that they're going to be a long way behind the "bleeding edge". In
general I've found compiling and installing FPC and Lazarus on top of
those to be not too difficult, with the possible exception of things
like FPC's relationship with libgdb, Lazarus's relationship with libc,
and the ABI to EABI transition on ARM.

With the major caveat that if you want to build a particular version of
Lazarus you need to know its preferred version of FPC, and if you need
to build a particular version of FPC you might, in my experience, need a
pre-existing binary from one release older (don't expect to build 2.4.0
using the 2.0.0 compiler).
--
Mark Morgan Lloyd
markMLl .AT. telemetry.co .DOT. uk

[Opinions above are the author's, not those of his employers or colleagues]

--
Juha Manninen
2010-06-28 09:55:44 UTC
Permalink
I reordered the Getting_Lazarus page. I moved some platform specific parts to
their own pages.
For example there is a long story about installing the Lazarus release version
for Ubuntu. Is it really so complicated?
See: http://wiki.lazarus.freepascal.org/LazarusReleaseUbuntu

And I found the buildfaq, too. Now there are at least 2 wiki pages and one
buildfaq talking about the same thing:

http://wiki.lazarus.freepascal.org/Getting_Lazarus
http://wiki.lazarus.freepascal.org/Installing_Lazarus
http://www.stack.nl/~marcov/buildfaq.pdf

They are ordered from "brief" to "detailed".
Installing_Lazarus page has the same problem that Getting_Lazarus page had:
there is lots of platform and version specific info, most of which is not
needed by one single reader. It should be divided into sub-pages, which I
actually did for Getting_Lazarus page.

Page
http://wiki.lazarus.freepascal.org/Getting_Lazarus#Build_and_install_with_make

tells how to install FPC SVN version. It is short and easy. Only the symlink
for fpc generation must be checked, and maybe some windows specific stuff.

Feedback is welcome.

BTW, is it possible to rename a wiki page (file)? I used CamelCase names when
I could have used spaces which are translated to underscores apparently.


Juha

--
Graeme Geldenhuys
2010-06-28 09:48:21 UTC
Permalink
Post by Juha Manninen
BTW, is it possible to rename a wiki page (file)? I used CamelCase names when
I could have used spaces which are translated to underscores apparently.
There is a option "Move" on the right menu, which asks for a new name
- not sure if the general public has access to complete the move
though.
--
Regards,
- Graeme -


_______________________________________________
fpGUI - a cross-platform Free Pascal GUI toolkit
http://opensoft.homeip.net/fpgui/

--
Juha Manninen
2010-06-28 10:46:18 UTC
Permalink
Post by Graeme Geldenhuys
There is a option "Move" on the right menu, which asks for a new name
- not sure if the general public has access to complete the move
though.
It worked, thanks!
The old links are even forwarded to the new page.

Juha

--
Hans-Peter Diettrich
2010-06-28 09:57:15 UTC
Permalink
Post by Juha Manninen
Then it says "it is recommended to build a fpc package for your
distribution (.deb or .rpm file)".
Why would it be recommended? I tried to build such RPM package when
installing FPC trunk for the first time, but I failed.
This is why somebody, who really *succeeded* in building a package for
his system, should share it with the community. The above could be
rephrased like "if you succeed in building ..., upload it to ... for use
by others".

DoDi


--
Juha Manninen
2010-06-28 12:35:34 UTC
Permalink
This is why somebody, who really succeeded in building a package for
his system, should share it with the community. The above could be
rephrased like "if you succeed in building ..., upload it to ... for use
by others".
Yes. Debian / Ubuntu .dep package creation is documented in Getting_Lazarus
page. I added a .rpm ToDo item under:
http://wiki.lazarus.freepascal.org/Getting_Lazarus#Build_a_RPM_package

So if someone makes a .rpm package for Fedora / Suse / Mandriva, please share
the knowledge.
I will not study that now. The svn version installs well enough.

Juha

--

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